tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post5145781213012186303..comments2023-10-17T20:50:15.495-07:00Comments on Groupname for Grapejuice: Retangling the Spaghetti Theory of Conspiracy 2znorehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09870745426523284218noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-18740290228658246972016-05-02T10:07:30.235-07:002016-05-02T10:07:30.235-07:00Great essay. I've been fascinated by a vision ...Great essay. I've been fascinated by a vision for years. Look forward to reading your mooted megapost on it. Gyre and Gimble.heronbonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13993372516590150498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-16570654839414491442015-09-13T20:22:39.607-07:002015-09-13T20:22:39.607-07:00Here is a unique view never heard before in the co...Here is a unique view never heard before in the conspiracy field:<br /><br />http://fivebodied.com/archives/audio/catalog/Bob_Video/1999-05-10--Off_the_Record/1999-05-10--Off_The_Record.mp4Bob Dobbshttp://ionandbob.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-70894328276648610182014-02-05T15:49:52.177-08:002014-02-05T15:49:52.177-08:00)))((((((
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[____])))((((((<br />(·)...(·)<br />...v...<br />[____]https://www.blogger.com/profile/03037704048671379868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-87619253327811352552014-01-18T07:07:42.493-08:002014-01-18T07:07:42.493-08:00Great stuff as usual, PRM. Just emerging from the ...Great stuff as usual, PRM. Just emerging from the new year gloom so my apologies for being so lax.<br /><br />Blake's distinction is not the imagination from thought, but the imagination from reason. "Mental Things are alone Real." Reason is necessary but Blake viewed it as having far too much sway in his own time (now too, I think). <br /><br />Reason is a sort of a averaging principle. It looks for commonalities and generalities and on finding these it constructs patterns and rules. The imagination, in contrast, deals in the "minute particulars." It finds beauty and power in the unique and singular, and it is only through the unique and singular -- not the general rule -- that we can stop the wheel.<br /><br />Reason, as a single vision, sees the prosaic Sun and compares it to a golden coin. The imagination, though, has double vision. It sees the golden disk yet it also witnesses the choir of heavenly angels that it contains. The imagination is the unlimited visionary capacity that we all possess. It is accessed by fully opening our senses.<br /><br />I have no problem with advocates of the New Age who state that only thought is real. I don't meet many people who actually believe this, though. Usually, as I wrote above, New Agers seem to insist that science has just not gone far enough -- eventually it will be able to prove by applying physical laws that what we now dismiss as "superpowers" are fully possible. <br /><br />Blake did not believe in physical laws and he did not require proof. To do so would be to place reason above the imagination. Blake would condemn a lot of current New Age thinking as "natural religion."<br /><br />The Sufi idea of the "imaginal" I know best through the work of Henri Corbin. The mundus imaginalis is that intermediary world between that of the senses (having form and substance) and the intelligible realm (having no form and no substance). It is also the realm of vision and in this way it is synonymous to Blake's "imagination". <br /><br />If we apply this to the medieval cosmology, the senses correspond to the four elemental sub-lunar realm, the Empyrean is the intelligible, and the spheres of the planets and stars occupy the imaginal. The Sufis, Corbin, Blake, Paracelsus (one of Blake's probable sources) can be traced back at least as far as Neo-Platonism. With all, mind is primary to matter.<br /><br />"Seeing a tree in the heart." A beautiful definition of the imagination. The differences in cultures that you stress are important and fascinating. <br /><br />When Westerners point to themselves as Me or I they usually touch their chest. Japanese usually do this by touching their noses. On the other hand, Westerners will touch their heads when referring to the mind, Japanese to the heart. The Japanese way seems to make more sense. The ego is in the head and the mind is in the heart. Blake would agree. Maybe that is why the words for "thought" and "imagination" were the same?znorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09870745426523284218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-13608702358979186972014-01-18T05:31:15.178-08:002014-01-18T05:31:15.178-08:00I would be interested to hear how you perceive ima...I would be interested to hear how you perceive imagination to be different from thought, and (along these lines) how Blake's "imagination is everything" may be different from New Age assertion(s) of "thought/mind is everything". <br /><br />I can sense that the "imagination" you refer to probably has something to do with the Sufi idea of "imaginal" - but I have to confess that none of the explanatory literature on the Sufi "imaginal" really stuck with me, so I would be interested to hear in your own words what you think the Sufi "imaginal" refers to. <br /><br />If it serves as any background to my questions, here is a bit of linguistic curiosity: the word for "imagination" in modern Japanese (and in modern Chinese too, since the Chinese imported the word from Japan) - 想像力 - was only invented after it became necessary to translate the idea from the West, probably circa the turn of the 20th century. Before that, the people of China and Japan were content to use the same word for "think" 想 to mean, among other things, "imagine" (it's actually more complicated than that, I am simplifying a lot of things here). <br /><br />Anyway, if you take the word 想 apart, it is "seeing 目 a tree 木 in the heart 心". Consider this:<br /><br />"I am thinking of a tree."<br /><br />"I am imagining a tree."<br /><br />To the premodern Chinese/Japanese mind, the line between the above two are blurry. It's not that concept of "imagination" does not exist to them - one can tell from the context of the text if they using the word 想 to mean if they are thinking about something logically, recalling something from memory, or creating a fantasy. It's more like to them, all these activities of the mind form an organic, indivisible whole. <br /><br />To draw an analogy, to many cultures before the modern era - the colours of green, blue and (sometimes) black were considered to be "the same colour". (See Guy Deutscher's Through the Language Glass). I suspect it is the same thing with "thought" and "imagination" too. PRMhttp://spakeprm.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-54156303122155435932014-01-17T07:18:31.973-08:002014-01-17T07:18:31.973-08:00An amazing and thought-provoking comment, muzu. Ma...An amazing and thought-provoking comment, muzu. Many thanks.<br /><br />Thank you also for the book recommendation. It's interesting that I've got Monica Sjoo's The Great Cosmic Mother on a shelf literally right above my head as I write this. <br /><br />I think I very much know where you're coming from. A decade or more ago I read a lot by Marija Gimbutas, Riane Eisler, Merlin Stone, etc. I still have great sympathy for this line of thinking, as well as for advocates of a return to a "paleolithic" perspective, but I'm starting to realize that the myths and poetry behind these things are more important than the "history" involved. History is great for providing metaphors, but I don't require it to validate anything.<br /><br />I really agree with your critique of the New Age. This is a very wide umbrella term, and of course there are many books identified as such that I enjoy reading, but it usually can be boiled down to one of two things I don't jive with. <br /><br />Either it's a notion of nature-plus -- the idea that present day science just has not yet discovered the superhuman abilities that eastern or other exotic traditions have long practiced -- or it's some form of transcendentalism -- the idea that there is a perfect realm beyond our own. <br /><br />I will explore both of these views, but neither is particularly to my liking. Nor, however, am I presently partial to the idea that nature herself is supreme. Nature requires a mediator and mediators, the middlemen, soon become priests. <br /><br />Instead, the imagination is nature. It is what is primary and we all possess it unmediated. The fall of humanity, and its degradation of nature, arrives with the clouding of our perception. These veils are maintained by those (in actuality aspects of ourselves) who have gained in keeping us limited, but all of us have the power -- not material or physical power but imaginal power -- to tear down the veils. znorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09870745426523284218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-83986793601714965492014-01-14T21:31:54.388-08:002014-01-14T21:31:54.388-08:00goes well with amazon's original name relentle...goes well with amazon's original name relentless.com -- url still links to itErichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09533386110515787834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-21948355142296337802014-01-12T10:31:29.761-08:002014-01-12T10:31:29.761-08:00by the way, if you decide to buy that book, please...by the way, if you decide to buy that book, please do not get it from Amazon, I have found out that they treat people who work for them like slaves or robots!!muzuzuzushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03662316983453845369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-41956036861538079912014-01-12T10:26:11.003-08:002014-01-12T10:26:11.003-08:00Very interesting post in deed. My favourite quotes...Very interesting post in deed. My favourite quotes are these: “Conspiracy theory advocates are often criticized by those who more or less believe in the official version of events as making far too much out of mere coincidence. On the other end of the spectrum, conspiracy theorists claim that these nihilists, holding the view that history is essentially a purposeless, random process, are "coincidence theorists."” <br /><br />…“"Control of the dreaming mind": implies a near complete mastery of the realm of synchronicity and the archetypes, and this is precisely the radical thesis that Downard is presenting. We are all the dreamers of this world, but increasingly this dreaming power, which most of us do not know that we possess, is being stripped from us. We dreamers become disposable bit players in the grand consensus nightmare of the masonic sorcerers.”<br /><br />This makes complete sense and let me summarize in my own way. What patriarchal traditional religions and philosophies and secular indoctrination, including scientism have contributed to is instilling in the group mind a sense that nature and reality are either fallen, and ruled over by evil, or meaningless mechanical and random. In both these worldviews which bleed into each other (Galileo, the father of modern science emerges in the oppressive tradition worldview which seeks to suppress his knowledge) there is made in us to feel a disconnect between us and nature, and also our very physical bodies, senses, thinking and feeling...MEANWHILE, behind the scenes are nefarious secret groups that are aware of magickal connections but use this knowledge in a harmful way, and a way to have and keep and expand power over the rest of us who, for many, have become hapless slaves, puppets, playthings. Utterly unaware, lacking ancient remembrance of a reality which in its essence is both practical but also magical and interrelated. I have found great taboo in trying to talk about the occult to do with 9/11 etc etc even with members (leaders and followers. Including people like Graham Hancock) of the psychedelic community. You would expect people there to have deep interest in such deep explorations, but NOT about this! This just shows to me the age old trauma to do with this understanding---the persecutions. <br /><br />I would though go even deeper than where you seem to be at. For example, the perspective I am coming from is a Goddess religious perspective. This perspective takes into account patriarchal thinking as connecting all these seemingly disparate branches of belief--traditional religions and philosophies, secular thinking, scientism and the occult. A book i VERY much recommend you read is this one <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Return-Mother-Armageddon-Towards-Feminist/dp/1891386077" rel="nofollow">Return of the Dark/Light Mother or New Age Armageddon? Towards a Feminist Vision of the Future</a> by Monica Sjoo . There is a dualistic tendency throughout patriarchal thinking to present two 'choices'---either the scientific worldview where all is supposed to be 'matter' or 'physical' OR New Age thinking where everything is supposed to be 'mind'. Usually with the latter we are supposed to be imprisoned in a 3D sensual prison, and people like David Ickle create a very paranoid view of nature, even claiming the moon is an artificial hide out for evil aliens who do not like us. Well I see such scenarios as scripts coming from the very Illuminati themselves. Their strategy is always DIVIDE & CONTROL and the deeper aspect of this control is dividing us from nature, the land, and also from our own being. This is huge reason for their war on psychedelics! Psychedelics or sacred medicine is really the most direct means to directly undo their controlling spells. No it cannot suddenly dissolve their evil war obsessed polluting matrix, but first we have to wake up to their mindcontrol as well as activism.<br />muzuzuzushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03662316983453845369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-26711768641476346262014-01-04T11:22:20.592-08:002014-01-04T11:22:20.592-08:00I have waited to read this post. Knowing that what...I have waited to read this post. Knowing that what is presented will be hard to chew. Having used ethnogens many times in my life, I have truly taken the path less traveled. The Jung in me is always looking for synchs to correct my life. Being present in the now is always tempered by dreamtime.. I have enjoyed every post on Groupname for grapejuice. Thank you DennisAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03994331539913821616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-61312665731228735792013-12-15T03:53:41.997-08:002013-12-15T03:53:41.997-08:00Entirely makes sense. It is interesting and more t...Entirely makes sense. It is interesting and more than a bit terrifying that due to the excessive and growing energy requirements of the state/corporate machine that actual titanic demons of the underworld have broken out in places like the Gulf of Mexico and Fukushima. Who will we face next? Where will it emerge? "The Dwarves delved too greedily and too deep." The Ant should chill and join the Grasshopper in play.znorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09870745426523284218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-39473956490048237192013-12-11T12:52:01.282-08:002013-12-11T12:52:01.282-08:00Here's a conspiracy for you, government change...Here's a conspiracy for you, government changes policies in regards to shale oil, oil assets that have been protected around the globe lose value, causing financial crash in 2008. Cash flow is needed to reinvest in shale assets, bailout, drop in financial market causes businesses to fire employees destroying the middle class in the process, and lowering housing values because there is no longer a middle class who can afford houses. <br /><br />Chod reminds me of the Ant and the Grasshopper, there is no story without either. <br /><br />"the entities of all kinds, were once understood as residing in the human heart" This is subversive art now we have come full circle<br />Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09533386110515787834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-1346922571614036022013-12-11T12:25:30.884-08:002013-12-11T12:25:30.884-08:00I imagine that for Stanley, yes.I imagine that for Stanley, yes.wklaus23https://www.blogger.com/profile/02428620309284261667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-31685649314368067292013-12-11T03:28:35.177-08:002013-12-11T03:28:35.177-08:00Perfect. But were the demons placated?Perfect. But were the demons placated?znorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09870745426523284218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-72962582559612440462013-12-09T10:32:51.709-08:002013-12-09T10:32:51.709-08:00KubrickChod: black/monolith/2001, white/milk/Cloc...KubrickChod: black/monolith/2001, white/milk/Clockwork, red/blood/Shining, multicolored/rainbow/Eyes Wide Shut. Pretty straightforward that guy.wklaus23https://www.blogger.com/profile/02428620309284261667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-85366284777501871522013-12-09T04:44:36.420-08:002013-12-09T04:44:36.420-08:00Welcome. Thanks to you for the kind words. Welcome. Thanks to you for the kind words. znorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09870745426523284218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-36146145128650956252013-12-08T17:43:17.434-08:002013-12-08T17:43:17.434-08:00Somehow, while trying to find a pdf of Cosmic Trig...Somehow, while trying to find a pdf of Cosmic Trigger III online, I ran into your blog. You have comprehensively put together a lot of different ideas I have been thinking about. Thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-8106184581177942662013-12-07T19:48:38.849-08:002013-12-07T19:48:38.849-08:00Thanks for your honest and critical feedback, Leif...Thanks for your honest and critical feedback, Leif.<br /><br />To me, part two stems naturally from part one. To account for the synchronicities that inevitably emerge in mass events the absolutists extend the conspiracy to the beyond human. This meshes well with what the secret societies themselves say. The ultimate masters are the "Secret Chiefs," which more recently have been identified with the ETs, and compared with the spirit abductors in shamanic ordeals and fairy lore, etc.<br /><br />The spaghetti theory still very much applies here. There are cooperating and competing "cosmic" conspiracies (plural), but there is no One Big Conspiracy which rules the universe. <br /><br />The revelations gained from the chod practice takes this to a whole other level. The demons ARE within, but the within is identical with the without. This may be Jung's own position, as I suggested, but most Jungians do not go this far at all. Total groundlessness is difficult for anyone to accept, including myself.<br /><br />I deeply sympathize with those who want to deal effectively with the "concrete" conspiracies of governments and corporations. I encourage and participate in active resistance on this level as well. I am more and more convinced though, especially in study of Blake, that the roots of even these conspiracies are magickal. <br /><br />Blake's call to action was revolutionary, but by this he means revolution leading to revelation -- nothing less than the release of the Titans from the underworld. My phrase "worldwide chod" is metaphoric, but this is essentially what I'm referring to.<br /><br />znorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09870745426523284218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6600594361812328513.post-3831093506428335652013-12-07T01:33:49.143-08:002013-12-07T01:33:49.143-08:00I really liked the epistemoligcal, meta-conspiracy...I really liked the epistemoligcal, meta-conspiracy structure you created in part 1 but I think the Chod summary oversimplifies everything: isn't your final position that of a Jungian psychological coincidence theorist? By saying 'it's just a ride, man' we effectively become inverted nihilists. Lets say there is a conspiracy taking place somewhere in the world. A transnational corporation or govt is doing something highly illegal etc. What will the Alan Watts/Leary/Alt New-Age due to stop that conspiracy aside from postulating an elaborate cosmological self-help strategy for dealing with darker motives of the unconscious? Who within, however you want to qualify, the conspiracy will take those ideas into action?Leifhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11196219062205653283noreply@blogger.com